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nonleft Posts:112
 Senior User Online Status:
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| 05/13/2008 4:40 PM |
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Don't think the same crap couldn't happen here in northern Utah! It does! Our State, County and local City governments infringe on more private property rights than we can even count! Time to put a stop to it! Video is below and it is very disturbing to see how elected government and employed government officials act. They have complete contempt for individual rights and the constitution. In Cache County and surrounding areas, they try to cover it up by saying "it's the right thing to do."
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Fiery Darts Posts:135
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| 07/09/2008 11:11 PM |
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That was an interesting video. There were three people in it, and each of them did some things right and did some things wrong. For example, the property owner did well by recording the encounter and not physically threatening his visitors. He hurt his cause by making more vague references to constitutions than to specific code, not understanding how the code related to his specific situation, and coming across as greedy. The cop did well by standing his ground (he was legally allowed to be there) and calling for backup. He did poorly by making the faulty and irrelevant "if you have nothing to hide, you have no reason to deny us access" argument. The inspector did well by bringing the deputy, but she probably should have made sure whether she needed a warrant before exploring the property like she did.
In the end, the Indiana State code is clear that the officer was not trespassing, but it is difficult to tell whether the inspector was trespassing. Ultimately, the most that the property owner will be able to accomplish would be to make any evidence gathered inadmissible since it was improperly gathered. He might be able to sue the inspector for any actual damages that she made to the property, but that's not likely to be for much.
I get the sense that most people, and especially most people at this site, grossly misunderstand their legal rights as property owners. Before you try something like this, I would suggest that you seek some professional legal advice about what your specific rights are in that situation. If you are going to record the exchange, then I would suggest that you narrate as little as possible, limiting your narration to strictly factual statements (e.g. "She has just crossed over the property line," which is factual instead of "She has just trespassed," which is a legal statement) about things that aren't clear from watching the scene on tape. I suspect that you would do best to avoid the word "trespass" entirely, sticking to simple phrases such as "I do not give you permission to enter this property" and "please leave this property."
By the way, there are some interesting sites about this video. This one (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=151x6014) points out that the health inspector was there for a lawful purpose and did not view anything that was not out in the open, so there was no trespass or illegal search. This one (http://the-post-postmodernist.blogspot.com/2007/05/indiana-sheriff-allows-illegal-trespass.html) cites another section of code that gives health inspectors the right to enter property to inspect, along with a few dissenting opinions of people who don't think that she met the criteria in the code (I suspect that she did--she showed proper ID and was there for a purpose that was explicitly stated in the code). This site (http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=32963&Disp=14&Trace=on) appears to be the writings of the property owner on the situation. If so, the property was burned?, condemned?, and attempted to be sold at auction. He also called on the state militia to restore the Constitution.
Good times. |
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Debator Posts:46
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| 07/11/2008 6:42 PM |
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As with most of these types of incidents, we don't have the whole story. It's unclear whether this fellow was breaking the law or causing a threat to the community with the actions he was taking on his property. He said that all he was doing was, "moving some dirt around", but moving dirt around actually can have a serious impact on the community. If he hit a power or water line, it could disrupt power to the entire community. If he upset his septic system (which he has, see the link in FieryDarts' post above), then that could be a nuisance (smell) or pose a public health risk to the entire neighborhood. Under all state constitutions and the federal Constitution, government actors have the authority to enter a property to correct those problems (but sometimes they are restricted by the warrant and probable cause requirements, as is the case in Indiana. It is important to know exactly what your property rights are and how they are protected. This gentlemen could have called a lawyer that day, (or the day before, when she first showed up), or later, when his property was facing condemnation, etc. He also could have done his own research at the library or online to find out what exactly his rights were. I doubt he did any research because the code section and constitution section he quoted have nothing to do with property rights, warrants, or health and safety. Finally, it is also worth noting that under our Constitution and in every state, a person who feels that they have been wronged by government action can seek redress either through the courts, the legislature, or the executive. A person whose property has been trespassed can sue the trespasser, even the government, for damages, an injunction, or other appropriate relief. Just because this woman walked onto his property doesn't mean that his rights have been forever violated and that he is at the mercy of an all-powerful oppressive government. Like all good citizens, he needs to learn to work within the system, rather than to fight against it. Even if he feels the system is unjust, he can change it through legislative lobbying or court order. |
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